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Bandsplain
Bandsplain
Feb 27, 2025

The La's with Ben Gibbard

Bandsplain - The La's with Ben Gibbard

The La's with Ben Gibbard
The podcast "Truthless" hosted by Brian Phillips delves into the lies people tell, ranging from minor fibs to significant deceptions. The episode also features an in-depth discussion about the band The La's, focusing on their only album and the challenges they faced during its production. The La's, led by Lee Mavers, struggled with capturing the sound they envisioned, leading to multiple recording sessions and dissatisfaction with the final product. Despite this, their song "There She Goes" became iconic. The episode highlights the band's influence on Britpop and the enigmatic nature of Mavers, who is known for his perfectionism and reluctance to release more music. The discussion also touches on the band's live performances, their impact on other musicians, and the enduring legacy of their music.

Key Points:

  • The podcast "Truthless" examines the nature of lies and deception in everyday life.
  • The La's faced numerous challenges in recording their debut album, with Lee Mavers dissatisfied with the final product.
  • "There She Goes" became an iconic song despite the band's internal struggles and limited discography.
  • The La's influenced the Britpop movement, impacting bands like Oasis.
  • Lee Mavers is known for his perfectionism and has not released new music, maintaining a mysterious presence in the music world.

Details:

1. 💡 The Truth About Lies and a New Podcast

  • Scientific studies indicate that most people lie every 10 minutes.
  • Lying is a common part of human interactions, often used to maintain social harmony or protect oneself.
  • Understanding the patterns and reasons behind lying can help in improving communication and trust in relationships.
  • Awareness of the frequency of lies can aid individuals in being more honest and discerning in their interactions.

2. 🎙️ Introducing 'Truthless' with Brian Phillips

  • The podcast 'Truthless' explores the lies people tell, covering topics like faking illnesses and fabricating stories on national TV.
  • Hosted by Brian Phillips and available on Spotify and the Ringer Podcast Network.
  • Aims to uncover and discuss the motivations and implications behind these deceptions.

3. 🎥 Marvel's Daredevil Returns with New Episodes

  • Charlie Cox reprises his role as Matt Murdock, emphasizing continuity and engaging long-time fans.
  • Vincent D'Onofrio returns, suggesting a focus on character depth and established dynamics between characters.
  • The storyline delves into Matt Murdock's darker side, indicating a thematic exploration of justice versus revenge, appealing to a mature audience.
  • The series aims to maintain viewers' interest with a strategic two-episode premiere, highlighting its approach to capturing and retaining audience attention.
  • The plot introduces new challenges and adversaries, expanding the narrative scope and complexity.
  • Fan reactions have been positive, indicating a successful strategy in maintaining series momentum and viewer engagement.

4. 🥗 Nutrition and Weight Loss with Factor Meals

4.1. Factor Meals Offerings and Dietary Preferences

4.2. Weight Loss and Promotions with Factor Meals

5. 🎵 Exploring Music Preferences and Bandsplain's Theme

  • The discussion reveals a clear divide in music preferences, using Bandsplain as a focal point to illustrate differing tastes.
  • One participant expresses a strong dislike for Bandsplain, highlighting how personal experiences and exposure influence music opinions.
  • The conversation underscores the role of familiarity with specific bands or songs in shaping individual music preferences.
  • Anecdotes about Bandsplain provide context, illustrating how the band's unique style impacts listener perceptions and divides opinions.
  • The segment lacks quantitative metrics but offers qualitative insights into how band familiarity affects music appreciation.

6. 🎸 Cult Bands and Iconic Artists Discussion

  • The show Bandsplain, hosted by Yossi Salek, explains cult bands or iconic artists with expert guests.
  • The episode features The La's, known as a 'one album wonder,' and discusses their influence and legacy in the music industry.
  • Benjamin Gibbard joins as a guest, providing insights into why The La's are considered a true cult band.
  • Key discussion points include The La's unique sound, their impact on future artists, and the enduring popularity of their music despite having only one album.
  • Insights from Benjamin Gibbard highlight the band's minimalist approach and how it resonates with fans and musicians alike.

7. 🎤 Benjamin Gibbard's Musical Journey and Influences

  • Benjamin Gibbard's middle name is just 'D.', a family tradition honoring northern Michigan names like Dorton and Denzel.
  • This middle initial 'D.' is a shared tradition with his father, reflecting a familial custom rather than a full middle name.
  • Gibbard humorously notes the need to update his Wikipedia to reflect this name origin story.
  • In addition to his familial background, Gibbard's musical journey is deeply influenced by his personal experiences and regional roots, which have shaped his lyrical themes and musical style.
  • Gibbard's work with Death Cab for Cutie and The Postal Service showcases his ability to draw from personal and regional influences, creating a distinctive sound that resonates with a wide audience.
  • His approach to songwriting often integrates introspective themes influenced by his Pacific Northwest upbringing and personal life experiences.

8. 📀 The Laws: A One-Album Wonder Exploration

  • The Laws' single album creates a unique challenge in identifying favorite bands, as highlighted by their eponymous record's significant impact despite limited discography.
  • Teenage Fan Club is established as a favorite band, showcasing a preference hierarchy that implicitly underlines The Laws' unique position due to their singular contribution.
  • The discussion suggests that The Laws' album holds a substantial place in music history, even with only one release, emphasizing the quality and impact of their work.

9. 🎧 Musical Legacy and Influence of The Laws

  • A single album can make it easier for a band to maintain a favorable legacy, as there are no subsequent releases that might dilute their impact.
  • For a band or artist to truly establish a legacy, there should be significant peaks and valleys in their career, suggesting that a compelling narrative or story is important.
  • Artists with multiple albums risk eroding their legacy if later works do not match the quality or impact of earlier successes.
  • The Laws, with their single album, avoided the pitfalls of legacy dilution, maintaining a strong influence in their genre.
  • A band's legacy is often shaped by both their musical output and the narrative created around their career trajectory.

10. 🎶 The Laws' Unrecorded Brilliance and Influence

  • The Laws produced a single acclaimed album, which became a unique legacy as they did not release more music, creating a narrative of making one 'perfect statement' before stepping away from recording.
  • Their trajectory mirrors other artists who experience initial success, a period of obscurity, and sometimes a rebirth, although The Laws did not produce further recordings.
  • Fans often anticipate a revival during an artist's low periods, but The Laws remain exceptional with no additional output beyond their debut album, leaving a lasting influence on the music scene.
  • The band's initial success was marked by high critical acclaim, setting a standard that influenced many artists who admire achieving artistic perfection over commercial production.
  • The Laws' decision to not record more has contributed to their mystique, inspiring other musicians to prioritize artistic integrity and quality over quantity.

11. 🎤 Lee Mavers and the Myth of 'There She Goes'

  • Lee Mavers, known for his enigmatic presence in the music industry, has a collection of unreleased songs available only as bootlegs, praised for their brilliance by fans who long for official releases.
  • Fans speculate about the pronunciation of Mavers' name, with variations like 'Mavers' and 'Mavers', but 'Mavers' is commonly accepted, notably used by Noel Gallagher.
  • The allure of Mavers' unreleased work continues to captivate audiences, contributing significantly to his legacy, despite the lack of studio versions.

12. 📚 The Laws' History and Liverpool Influence

  • The speaker's use of British colloquialisms reflects cultural adaptation, indicating an integration into the local vernacular.
  • A book about 'The Laws,' despite being described as poorly written, is valued for its wealth of information, highlighting its significance as a historical resource.
  • The creation of the book is seen as a labor of love, suggesting an appreciation for the effort to document 'The Laws' history despite literary flaws.
  • Historical figures, such as Michael Clifford Badger, are emphasized, indicating a focus on individual contributions to the cultural narrative of 'The Laws.'
  • Further exploration into the specific roles and contributions of individuals like Michael Clifford Badger could enhance understanding of their impact on 'The Laws' history.

13. 🎵 Formation and Evolution of The Laws

  • Michael Clifford Badger, born on March 18, 1962, initiated the formation of the band The Laws, with Captain Beefheart being a significant influence.
  • The band Nuclon, active around 1981, included Lee Mavers, who was born on August 2, 1962, and initially played bass before moving to guitar.
  • Lee Mavers' early involvement in music through bass suggests a common pathway where musicians transition from bass to guitar after initial attempts.
  • The Laws evolved significantly from their inception, with key milestones including lineup changes that brought new musical influences.
  • Captain Beefheart's influence was pivotal, shaping the band's experimental sound, which stood out in their early performances.
  • Lee Mavers' transition to guitar was crucial in defining the band's sound, bringing a distinctive style that contributed to their unique identity.

14. 🎤 Lee Mavers' Musical Philosophy and Songwriting Process

14.1. 🎤 Lee Mavers' Musical Journey and Instrumentation

14.2. 🎶 Songwriting Techniques and Influences

15. 🔊 Recording Challenges and Band Dynamics

  • The segment delves into personal anecdotes that highlight the complexities of band dynamics and recording challenges.
  • A band member's trip to London and subsequent return suggests potential disruptions or adaptations in the recording process and band cohesion.
  • Informal networking and relationship building are implied through a chance encounter at a place called the Everyman, emphasizing its role in strengthening band cohesion.
  • Discussions about shared musical influences, such as Captain Beefheart, highlight the importance of personal music tastes in shaping band dynamics and creative direction.
  • Incomplete narratives, such as missing details about Lee Mapper's time in London, suggest communication gaps that could impact decision-making and project timelines.
  • The exchange about Captain Beefheart underscores how shared influences can forge stronger connections and align creative goals among band members.

16. 🎸 Band Changes and Recording Sessions

  • Teenage Fan Club's music is heavily influenced by bands like the Byrds, Big Star, and Orange Juice, reflecting a blend of their musical styles.
  • The band draws more on the spirit and experimental recording approaches of Captain Beefheart rather than direct musical inspiration.
  • The name 'The La's' was inspired by the musical scale 'Do Re Mi La' and the colloquial term 'Lad' from Liverpool, linking to local culture.
  • The band's formation was serendipitous; Mike (Mick) had a dream about the band's name and later met Lee Mavers at a bus stop, which he interpreted as a sign to start the band.
  • Teenage Fan Club's recording sessions are characterized by a mix of structured and experimental approaches, aligning with their diverse influences.

17. 🎤 Musical Influences and Recording Struggles

  • The environment of constantly being out in social settings like clubs and bars led to frequent encounters with people, which was part of the cultural norm for musicians at the time.
  • Mike Badger was attracted to Lee because of his unique personality and presence, which stood out compared to others. This uniqueness was both beneficial and challenging for Badger.
  • Lee had a significant impact on the band dynamics, taking over the band after joining, a phenomenon seen in rock history where new members overshadow original ones.
  • Despite initial tension, it appears that Mike Badger and Lee might have reconciled, as suggested by indications of mended relationships.
  • Mike Badger has transitioned into the art world post-band, suggesting adaptability and success beyond music.

18. 🎙️ The Laws' Recording Journey and Challenges

18.1. Early Songwriting and Studio Beginnings

18.2. First Recordings and Studio Experience

18.3. Live Performance and Songwriting Developments

18.4. Band Lineup and Networking

18.5. Government Program and Band Dynamics

18.6. Significant Performances and Legacy

19. 🎵 Songwriting Disputes and Band Dynamics

  • The song 'There She Goes' was rumored to be about heroin, a myth dispelled multiple times, illustrating how misconceptions can influence band narratives.
  • John Power joined the band at 17, five years younger than other members, and was mentored in music by Lee Mavers, enhancing his bass playing skills.
  • John Power's bass playing style was characterized by playing slightly behind the drummer, a technique that added a distinctive feel to their music, similar to Motown and soul genres.
  • John Power brought a social boost to the band by attracting crowds due to his wide friend network, enhancing the band's popularity at gigs.
  • Lee Mavers faced challenges in the recording studio due to a lack of technical language, which hindered capturing the desired sound during recording sessions.
  • The band's dynamics shifted in December 1986, leading to tension between members Mike Badger and Lee Mavers.

20. 🎸 Tensions and Changes Within the Band

  • Internal tensions between Badger and Lee led to Badger's departure from the band.
  • Lee, described as intense and passionate, had a strained friendship with Badger, contributing to the tension.
  • A significant altercation during a show setup resulted in Badger being told he would be let go, prompting his immediate departure.
  • Despite hopes from others for Badger to rejoin, he decided not to return, feeling his diminishing input and Lee's assertiveness made it inevitable.
  • Badger lacked the will to fight for his position, perceiving his exit as unavoidable.
  • The band's history of personal relationships may have influenced these tensions, highlighting the impact of personal dynamics on professional collaborations.

21. 🎶 The Struggle for Musical Integrity

  • Collaboration between band members is crucial for creating impactful music. The initial partnership between Lee Mavers and Mike Badger resulted in significant creative synergy, but Badger's departure marked a decline in the band's magic.
  • Lee Mavers' reflections suggest that maturity brings a broader perspective on past collaborations. He now romanticizes the early days of the band, even though those early formations didn't produce their only album.
  • The tension between writing and arranging music is highlighted through the dispute over song credits. Lee Mavers considered a song primarily his creation, despite Badger's contributions to its development, illustrating the complexities of songwriting credits.
  • In the music industry, differentiating between writing and arranging is often challenging, and can lead to disputes over publishing rights. Such issues require diplomatic handling to prevent discord among band members.
  • Royalties from a major hit song can significantly impact a musician's financial stability. Lee Mavers benefits from royalties of a hit song, allowing him not to work again, which may contribute to resentment from former band members who do not share in the royalties.
  • The financial success of a song can lead to long-standing resentment among former collaborators if credit and royalties are perceived to be unfairly distributed.

22. 🎧 The Laws' Cultural Impact and Musical Journey

22.1. Song Creation and Lee Mavers' Philosophy

22.2. Band Dynamics and Songwriting Insights

23. 🎤 The Laws' Record Deal and Recording Sessions

23.1. Record Deal Signing

23.2. Initial Recording Sessions

23.3. Producer Challenges

23.4. Comparative Sound and Production

24. 🎵 The Laws: Recording Challenges and Producer Changes

  • The Law's early press coverage in NME highlighted their attitude towards music, emphasizing a passion for catchy tunes despite limited musical proficiency: 'we can't really play, but we're having a go. And we love music. That's why we're having a go.'
  • Influences include Bob Dylan, Lennon, McCartney, Chuck Berry, Beefheart, The Who, and skiffle music, which shaped their acoustic guitar-driven sound, uncommon in the UK at the time.
  • Their recordings, including radio sessions, closely mirrored studio records with tight arrangements, clear musician roles, and minimal reliance on effects, aligning with Lee Maverick's straightforward vision.
  • Songs featured simple, open chords with unique ordering and voicings, highlighting strong melodies and vocals.
  • The band faced recording challenges, notably in achieving their desired sound without over-relying on effects, and underwent changes in production teams to better align with their musical vision.

25. 🎙️ The Laws' Influence and Lee Mavers' Vision

  • Lee Mavers' songwriting, characterized by its simplicity and basic chord voicings, creates timeless and universally appealing songs like 'There She Goes'.
  • 'There She Goes' initially did not achieve significant commercial success, reaching only number 86 in the UK singles chart, but later gained recognition and is now influential.
  • The song 'Way Out' was poorly chosen as a single, while 'Knock Me Down' was considered stronger, reflecting strategic missteps in releases.
  • Band dynamics were strained by financial mismanagement and equipment theft, challenges common to new bands.
  • Paul Hemmings' departure due to burnout highlights internal conflicts and frustration with band management.
  • Mavers sought a cohesive band vision, feeling isolated in his pursuit of musical integrity.
  • Personnel changes were frequent, affecting the band's cohesion, with Peter Camel and John Byrne (Boo) joining briefly.
  • The intro to 'There She Goes', lengthened in its final version, was a strategic production decision that enhanced the song's appeal.
  • Mavers' meticulous production process resulted in multiple versions of 'There She Goes', showcasing his commitment to quality.
  • 'There She Goes' is a precursor to Britpop, linking 60s British pop to contemporary music and defining a new genre.

26. 🎸 The Laws' Musical Style and Influence

  • The Laws' music is defined by its emotive melodies, capturing audiences with the philosophy 'if it's turning me on it must be turning someone else on.'
  • The unexpected commercial success of their album, which financially supported a member, highlights their influence despite internal skepticism.
  • Speculation about heroin use impacting the band's progression was significant, reflecting broader issues in 80s and 90s Liverpool, but the focus remained on their music's emotional impact.
  • 'There She Goes' achieved cultural prominence, featuring in the 1993 film 'So I Married an Axe Murderer' and 'Gilmore Girls,' showing the song's broad appeal.
  • Recording challenges, like dissatisfaction with Pink Museum Studio's sound and using an Abbey Road recording desk, underline their commitment to production quality.
  • 'Timeless Melody' was named single of the week by Melody Maker, but internal dissatisfaction prevented its production, illustrating their perfectionist nature.
  • Despite myths about the band's activity, their music's influence is evident as bands like Pearl Jam cover their songs, affirming a lasting legacy.
  • Internal tensions, exemplified by a vacation funded by the record company leading to production delays, underscore the band's internal conflicts but did not overshadow their musical influence.

27. 🎧 The Laws' Struggle and Recording Journey

  • The band's financial struggles led to a pivotal moment when GoDisc decided to stop funding them, creating a dilemma for band members who relied on the income.
  • Chris Sherrick faced a tough choice due to family obligations, while John Power remained committed to the band.
  • Barry Sutton felt pressured and eventually left the band, experiencing relief from the intense environment despite his love for the music.
  • Lee Mavers' desire for control over the band's sound created tension, as he sought a specific sound that often led to members being pushed out.
  • Lee Mavers was compared to the Beatles in an NME interview, but the band did not frequently reference the Beatles, indicating their unique artistic direction.
  • Mavers expressed dissatisfaction with modern recording techniques, preferring an older sound that was diminished by noise reduction processes.
  • Anecdotes about Lee Mavers highlight his unconventional approach, such as valuing the 'dust' on instruments, metaphorically suggesting the value of experience and authenticity in sound.

28. 🎤 The Laws' Recording Challenges and Band Dynamics

28.1. Introduction

28.2. Band Image and Style

28.3. Public Perception and Media Coverage

28.4. Live Performance and Vocal Quality

28.5. Recording Challenges and Producer Dynamics

29. 🎙️ The Laws' Album Release and Critical Reception

  • The La's toured extensively after their second record, performing new songs live, which created a disconnect between their live and recorded sound.
  • They had one month to record 'The Photo Album,' but the final product did not meet the high expectations set by their live performances.
  • Producer Chris Walla's different vision for the songs led to disagreements, and the band felt the recordings didn't capture the live sound.
  • Lee Mavers of The La's was notoriously dissatisfied with recorded versions, feeling they never captured his envisioned sound.
  • Despite critical acclaim, Mavers remained unsatisfied, indicating his high personal standards.
  • Mavers' reluctance to release music not meeting his expectations is a common artist issue.
  • Johnny Marr attempted to help Mavers move past his dissatisfaction, but Mavers was more interested in re-recording old songs.
  • Mavers only approved one recorded version, highlighting the disconnect between his vision and the outputs.
  • The La's album achieved commercial success, reaching number 30 on UK charts and certified silver, with 'There She Goes' reaching number 13.

30. 🎸 Touring and Legacy of The Laws

  • The album's sequencing, starting with 'Son of a Gun,' is praised for its strong opening and precise arrangement, reflecting Lee Mavers' influence.
  • Songs like 'I Can't Sleep' and 'Feelin' are highlighted for their energy and catchy melodies, showcasing Lee Mavers' songwriting economy, where every note serves a purpose, making 'Feelin' a standout with its under two-minute runtime.
  • Despite receiving mixed reviews, with some criticism about its 60s style and catchiness, the album maintains a lasting impact, with songs like 'There She Goes' achieving iconic status.
  • Lee Mavers distanced himself from the final album, criticizing its production and mix, stating the guide vocals were used instead of polished versions, yet he remained loyal to the songs' potential.
  • The album is noted for its concise length of around 35 minutes, reminiscent of the vinyl era's limitations, contributing to its timeless nature.
  • Lee Mavers' dissatisfaction with the album led to his discontent, highlighting the tension between artistic vision and commercial production, yet the band continued to tour in the UK, Europe, and the US, reaching a broader audience and solidifying their legacy. The touring experiences amplified the album's success, despite the internal tensions, establishing a lasting impact on fans and the music industry.

31. 🎤 The Laws: Post-Album Struggles and Band Changes

  • The Laws faced awkward performances on major platforms like Letterman due to union and recording requirements, highlighting industry challenges.
  • Their album release was poorly timed between the decline of hair metal and the rise of grunge, making it difficult to find a market.
  • The band's style was too melodic for the grunge scene and did not align with the 'Madchester' scene, leading to market struggles in both the US and UK.
  • Despite influencing future bands like Oasis, The Laws missed the Britpop movement, partly due to Lee Mavers' lack of interest in industry trends.
  • Internal dynamics were strained as John Power left in 1991 to pursue new musical directions, forming Cast, whose debut was highly successful.
  • Lee Mavers' reluctance to perform new music, despite having strong unreleased material, and his substance use further hindered the band.
  • Live performances suffered due to Mavers' incoherence, affecting the band's functionality and leading to repeated song performances.
  • Attempts at reunion, including performances with Oasis, did not restore their former status, illustrating the long-term impact of their struggles.

32. 🎵 Lee Mavers' Ongoing Influence and Unreleased Music

  • Lee Mavers remains a significant figure in the music industry, known for his influential work despite choosing not to release new music publicly.
  • John Power, a former band member, moved on to form Cast, which he described as a more cohesive unit than The La's, suggesting a shift from Mavers' artistic direction.
  • Mavers' reluctance to record new music, even under Polygram, and his focus on private performances highlight his preference for personal satisfaction over commercial success.
  • Royalties from 'There She Goes' ensure financial stability, with earnings around £4,000 quarterly and occasional spikes, such as £15,000, due to covers by artists like Robbie Williams.
  • His brief collaboration with The Crescent and subsequent withdrawal illustrate his unpredictable nature and commitment to personal standards.
  • The enduring appeal of his music is evident in covers, such as Sixpence None the Richer's version of 'There She Goes,' which reached number 32 on the Billboard Hot 100.
  • Despite being active in writing and performing as of 2014, Mavers prioritizes personal contentment, with fans expressing both frustration and respect for his choices.
  • The anticipation for new releases persists, reflecting the lasting impact of his unreleased music on fans and the industry.

33. 🎙️ Reflecting on The Laws and Their Musical Impact

  • The Postal Service member expresses willingness to produce new music if it means creating another album for The Postal Service, demonstrating a strong commitment to the band's future.
  • There is a playful suggestion to trade one Laws record for one Postal Service record, indicating a humorous yet earnest desire for new music from both groups.
  • The guest, Ben Gibbert, shares a deep appreciation for The Laws' singular album, highlighting its lasting impact despite being a one-album wonder.
  • The episode concludes by crediting the production team and contributors, illustrating the collaborative effort behind the podcast.
  • The host invites listeners to subscribe to Bandsplain for more episodes, suggesting a strategy for audience retention and engagement.
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